Interview with John Houck, course designer and Millennium owner
 1000 RATED: John, thank you for taking time to answer some questions about course design. Can you provide our readers with a brief disc golf resume, so that those who are not familiar with you or your achievements will have a better understanding of your expertise? |
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JOHN: I grew up in Buffalo, NY and started playing disc sports in about 1975. I played in my first tournament, the Western New York Open, in August of ’78 and headed off to college. Back in those days, everyone who played “frisbee” did it all: disc golf, ultimate, freestyle, Double Disc Court, etc., and I loved it all. I won the World Freestyle Championships in 1984 and 1985, and that’s about the same time I started running tournaments. In the late ‘80’s I created the Circular Skies Over Texas Tour, which was initially the biggest regional disc golf tour in the country, and that’s the time I started designing courses. In the early ‘90’s I created the PDGA National Doubles Championships and the World’s Biggest Disc Golf Weekend. By 1994, I was Commissioner of the PDGA, and I ran the Pro Worlds in ’94 and ’95 in Port Arthur, Texas. In those days, I was emcee for many of the disc world’s biggest events, and I was doing the commentary for the video coverage PDGA Worlds. I also co-founded Millennium Golf Discs with Harold Duvall, who left Millennium in 2006. In January of 2007 my fiancee Dee joined the business, and now we’re married and run Millennium, HouckDesign, and World’s Biggest together.
Currently, I’m President of the Disc Golf Foundation, designing lots of great courses, and trying to take disc golf to the next level. I’m also on the board of the Council on At-Risk Youth (CARY), a non-profit organization to help at-risk school kids stay out of juvenile delinquency. We raise money for them through our annual World’s Biggest Disc Golf Weekend. |
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1000 RATED: You are well known as one of the best (if not the best) course designers. Can you tell us a little about your first course design, what you’ve learned since then, and provide us with a step by step explanation of how you approach the design process now?
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 JOHN: Well, I’ve certainly designed more courses than anyone out there today (I’ve done over 80 on my own, and I’ve consulted on another 20), and I always hope to set the highest standard for quality and innovation. I take course design very seriously, and I’ve worked very hard to educate myself on the principles of golf design. The first course I designed was a temporary course at Zilker Park in Austin back in 1984. We used it for tournaments a couple times a year until the parks department finally agreed to make it a permanent course in 1987. It took three years of lobbying and proving ourselves to get the city on board for that one. But within a few years they were calling me to say, “We’re building a new park, and we want to include disc golf.” I’ll never forget the first time I got that call – I was floored.
As for what I’ve learned about design in the last 20 years, it would probably take a book. It would take at least an hour just to explain what I’ve learned in the last month (it’s been a good month). In the big picture, here are the major things I’ve learned:
• How to create “real” par fours and par fives that add a whole new dimension to the game
• How to look for great landing areas, not just tees and greens
• How to ignore obvious alleys and see more complex fairways
• How to keep an open mind and not fixate on certain hole concepts
• How to visualize fairways through thick woods and brush
• How to create landing areas that offer a continuum of rewards, rather than black and white rewards
• How to introduce options that emphasize the mental game
• How to build fairways around good “sandtraps”
The process I use to design a course always varies, depending on the nature of the property. I consider my approach to be very thorough, and I’m sure I spend a lot more time than many designers. But the basic process involves:
- Walking every available inch, so I know exactly what I have to work with. On major projects, this phase might take two days or more. (In some cases, the next step is to beg for more land.)
- Identifying key features that can add character, challenge, fun, and/or scenic elements to the final product.
- Collecting ideas for great holes.
- Creating routings that incorporate the best hole concepts.
- Sorting through those potential routings, identifying tradeoffs, and evaluating the benefits.
- Refining the basics of each individual hole concept, and starting over from scratch if need be.
- Checking the overall layout for balance and variety in about eight different categories.
- Stepping back to review the big picture and the process to make sure I haven’t missed anything.
- Refining each individual hole until it’s as good as I think it can be.
- One last evaluation of balance, variety, fairness, safety, etc. etc.
In some cases, once the preliminary design is done, fairways get cleared. Then I come back to review the clearing, re-evaluate each fairway, and mark additional clearing to be done. For the biggest projects, like the International Disc Golf Center, there might be a second or even a third re-evaluation. |
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1000 RATED: What is your favorite part of the design process? Is there something specific you look forward to every time you set foot on a new piece of land?
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JOHN: That’s a great question. I’d say it’s a tossup. On one hand, I love discovering unique features. Sometimes they just seem to pop up out of nowhere. On the other hand, it’s very exciting to be able to execute a hole concept that I’ve never done before. One of the great things about disc golf course design right now is that there is so much we still haven’t done, and every new property offers new opportunities to innovate. I love being able to say, “This is a great hole, and it’s not like any hole I’ve ever created or seen.” And sometimes, it’s just as exciting to come up a new hole concept on paper. I’ve got several ideas that are just waiting for the right property to come along.
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1000 RATED: A lot has been said about the 6 left, 6 straight, 6 right idea for developing a variety of shots within an 18-hole format. Do you agree with this plan, or does it depend on the land available? Do you like the 18 hole format best or do you also wish to see 24 or 27 holes developed when there is ample land that will meet this need?
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 JOHN: It’s absolutely critical to have left/right balance, and I am a huge proponent of having several shots on a course where you have to prove you can throw dead straight. But it’s not as simple as a lot of people think. For starters, I’ve seen plenty of courses where most of the right-to-left holes are tight, and the left-to-right holes are big and open. The result is that righties can throw straight shots that finish left on the tight holes and big sweeping anhyzers on the open holes. Lefties, meanwhile, are forced to throw almost impossible shots on the tight holes. It’s very unfair to the lefties, and it’s one of the most common mistakes designers make.
Next, there’s more to left/right balance than just the shape of the fairway. If all your holes have OB on the left, that’s unfair to righties. (That happens most often on courses with creeks, ponds, or road OB, and it can require very tricky routing to make the course fair. Sometimes you can’t avoid having a lot of OB on one side, and you have to find other ways to compensate.) If all your greens slope one way, or if all your doglegs bend one way, somebody’s getting treated unfairly. Careful designers evaluate left/right balance in multiple ways, not just on the shape of the shot.
And on courses that have par fours and par fives, you’ve got more than 18 shots to balance. You can’t have six long drives that favor righties, and balance that with six short approach shots that favor lefties. And when you start to offer multiple routes on some holes, it becomes even more complicated. It’s a tricky business, but the bottom line is that, during the entire 18-holes, you have to give righties and lefties the same opportunities to score, and the same opportunities to fail. Otherwise your course isn’t fair, and that is one of the designer’s top three responsibilities.
As for the number of holes on a course, I guess I’m traditional. I like 18. If there’s “extra” land, I try to use it to create more par fours and par fives, up to about a total par of 68. Or take the opportunity to remove a few average holes and replace them with good or great holes. One of my weaknesses, I think, has been to occasionally put fairways too close to each other. So now I always look for ways to give fairways a little room to breathe.
Of course, there will be cases where more holes make sense for tournaments or to accommodate players of different skill levels. I’m a big proponent of having two 18-hole courses on the same property, and making sure they have different character. I’ve done several of those now, and that kind of facility really gives players something to look forward to. |
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1000 RATED: We’ve talked with people who are adamant risk vs. reward proponents. In this sense, a 330 foot shot where the basket sits 25 feet from the water is more interesting than a 450 shot where the basket sits 25 feet from the water. The 330 foot shot may be more interesting and takes a little more skill, whereas the 450 shot might be less interesting dependent on a safe 350 drive and a 100 foot layup to save 3. Can you spill your thoughts on risk vs. reward and the difference between these two scenarios for Am’s and Pro’s alike?
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 JOHN: Risk vs. reward is another critical aspect of state-of-the art course design, and it is a hugely misunderstood concept. In your example, you’ve also touched on another key concept: proper hole length. One of the most popular articles I wrote in my series for Disc Golf World News was called “Dumb Holes,” in which I addressed this problem. The world is full of 450’ holes that are basically open, and people have the 100’ upshots you describe – even players who throw 450’ might wind up 100’ left or right. Some players will have 70’ upshots, and others will have 170’ upshots, but the result is the same.
Very few players birdie these holes, and very few players bogey these holes. Their scorecards just show three after three after three. That’s a dumb hole, because it doesn’t tell us which players are shooting well – everybody gets the same score. I have a very simple rule that has served me well: no player above the beginner level should ever have to throw a 70’- 125’ approach shot unless it really requires substantial accuracy, touch, or angle control. That’s just not a golf shot, and we need to eliminate those shots from our courses.
But back to risk vs. reward. It’s much more complex than it seems at first, and the best examples of it are not black and white. Creating holes that really exemplify the concept can be very difficult, and I sometimes wind up banging my head into the nearest tree trying to make it work. A simpler – and often more important concept – is execution vs. reward. Most shots don’t require a lot of risk, and a well-designed course constantly differentiates among poor, average, good, and great shots. The better the shot, the better the reward. A hole where a longer drive gets you a shorter approach shot is a good start. Beyond that, a more accurate drive should result in an easier (not necessarily a shorter) approach.
The distances should change for Pros and Ams, and the width of the alleys should change, and maybe even the size of the landing areas, but the principle is the same for all skill levels. |
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1000 RATED: The new course design trend seems to be a true par format (3s, 4s, and 5s). With the development and accolades from courses such as Maple Hill, Rock Hill, etc., do you see the sport moving in this direction? Do you agree with this and how do you think this affects an amateur player who is newly introduced to the game?
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 JOHN: I designed my first par four hole in the mid ‘80’s, and I soon understood how much multiple-shot holes add to the playing experience. The most obvious benefit is that good two-shot holes are different every day. Depending on where your drive lands, you could have a different approach shot every time you play the hole. On some older courses, players could just get all 18 drives “dialed in,” and the experience became more like darts or bowling than golf.
Good par fours and par fives add a very important mental component to the game, allow you to recover from mistakes, and much more. They bring to disc golf the same key elements that make golf one of the world’s great sports. It’s been several years since I designed a course that didn’t have any par fours. I finished two 9-holers recently that each have at least three par fours – that’s how important I think they are.
Are par fours and fives appropriate for new players? Absolutely. They seem to have worked pretty well for ball golf. As long as you provide appropriate shorter tees, par fours and fives enrich the game for new players, too. |
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1000 RATED: There are plenty of clubs who have a hard time convincing park systems/districts to provide land for course design. Often this seems to be an area of miscommunication or an unwilling party within the park board. Are there any suggestions you can offer for those who are looking to propose plans for a new course? Is there something special you think they can suggest or give to the board that will help them win the land they need?
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JOHN: It can be hard when it comes down to politics. There have been courses that have been held up, believe it or not, because someone was convinced that we play with metal discs. I guess I’d have two main pieces of advice. First, try to understand what disc golf looks like from their perspective, and understand what their fears and hopes are. In some cases, they want to bring people into town to spend money, but in other cases they’re afraid of being overrun by “foreigners.” Sometimes they’re afraid that the course won’t get enough use, and sometimes they’re afraid too much traffic will harm sensitive areas.
Second, try to reduce their risk as much as possible. If you happen to be paying for the course, be willing to take the course down if it turns out not to be popular. That way they have little to lose. In any case, make sure they know that baskets, tee signs, and other course equipment can be easily moved. |
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1000 RATED: Everyone in the sport seems to either openly or secretly want to design courses. Most would agree that you are a lucky man for what you have been able to accomplish. For those who are interested in getting started in course design, how do you suggest they start?
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JOHN: I definitely consider myself lucky, but I’ve also worked very hard for a long time to get where I am — I’ve worked continuously in the disc golf industry for 25+ years. You’re right that there are a lot of players who want to design courses, and who can blame them?
 At the same time, there are more and more players who respect the experience and expertise of longtime designers. Recently several key members of one of the sport’s most established clubs asked me to design a course in their area. That didn’t use to happen, and I was really honored that they would trust an “outsider” like me to create a world class course for them. I hope I’ll have the opportunity to give them a playing experience beyond what they currently have.
Out of all the players who dream about designing a course, only a few will get the chance. Some first-timers do a fine job, and others do less well. As for what I would recommend, the traditional path to get started is to find a piece of land and convince the owner of that land – be it a city, county, private interest, or whatever – to let you design a course there. I also think that we’re nearing the time when we’ll have course design classes people will be able to take, and that will obviously be a good first step for anyone interested in learning the art. Like any other endeavor, to be successful you have to love it, too. And not just love disc golf, love designing, because there will be pain-inducing plants, unpleasant weather, and occasional rattlesnakes. |
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1000 RATED: Do you have a dream to design the first permanent professional courses in Brazil, Zimbabwe, or Antarctica, or are you content with developing courses in the US, running Millennium, and promoting your annual World’s Biggest Disc Golf Weekend?
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JOHN: I can’t say that I’ve ever fantasized about designing a course in Antarctica, but I think it would be great if someone ran a World’s Biggest there. We’re actually hard at work on bringing new countries into World’s Biggest for 2009, and Dee is doing a great job reaching out to disc golfers all over the globe. We’ll be raising a lot of money for EDGE, the Disc Golf Foundation, and several other charities, and we’d love for everyone who loves disc golf to get involved. And we’re actively seeking international, national, and local sponsors. Want to have your logo on shirts all over the world? E-mail us from www.wbdgw.com.
As for where I’d like to design courses, I got the chance to do a couple amazing courses in Kamloops, British Columbia, and I would be thrilled to be able to work in more of the hundreds of beautiful places in Canada. And we have made some good initial contacts in faraway countries that don’t have disc golf yet, so I’ve got my fingers crossed. It’s a big world, and we’re willing to travel anywhere — it’s only a matter of time before we start seeing courses popping up everywhere. I would consider it a great honor to have the chance to create world class courses in places we would consider exotic. Can you imagine traveling halfway around the world to play a course on a property that’s so amazing, the course is different from anything we have here at home? People play incredible ball golf courses all over the world; I’d like to make it possible to disc golfers have that kind of opportunity… and I’m offering my services to make that happen. |
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1000 RATED: What is your favorite course you’ve designed and why? What is your favorite course you did not design and why?
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JOHN: Good question. On any given day, my favorite course is usually the one I’m currently working on, because I’m excited about pushing myself to a new level. But I’d have to say that I feel a strong attachment to the three courses at Circle R2 in San Saba, Texas. It was an amazing property, and a lot of my all-time favorite holes were there… I have lots of very vivid memories of those courses. Of course, I now live at the original Circle R, so Rolling Meadow and Circ Hill are my home courses, and there’s no place like home.
Among courses I didn’t design, I’m really fond of La Mirada. We had so many huge amazing tournaments there back in the day. And of course it’s a beautiful park. I don’t even really know the layout these days – I know it’s changed a lot over the years – but it’s a classic park. |
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1000 RATED: It may be a bit difficult to answer, but we ask this question to everyone. Who is your favorite 1000 rated player and why?
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JOHN: There are a lot of great people in disc golf, and I have a lot of old friends on that list. Who doesn’t love Stan McDaniel or Markus Kallstrom or Steve Wisecup? But I’d have to say that my favorite is Mike Olse. Mike is one of the most solid guys you’ll ever meet, and I’m very lucky to get to work with him so much. He’s extremely smart, hard-working, honest, open-minded, and insightful. He’s a very talented player with great design instincts and an eagerness to learn. He’s been very helpful to me an about a dozen projects already, and I’m thrilled to be able to call him HouckDesign’s first official associate designer.
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*** We would like to thank John Houck for taking time to speak with us. What a swell guy.
*** Images in this article were graciously provided by John Houck
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I think we are related. My name is Judi my dad was james houck. My dads brothers name was John who then had a son named John. I have been looking for my relatives who grew up in buffalo. PLEASE EMAIL ME I would like to know if we are related.My dad grew up in buffalo. if we are related i want to know you , If not i guess ill keep looking. there is MORE HOUCKS out here looking for the reat of the LONG LOST Fmily.
sincerely
Judi ( james Houcks DAUGHTER)
correct email is louise4christ@aol.com
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